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Forums IJCA Forums
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IJCA Forums
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stephen estes
Posts:2
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| 05/22/2006 10:39 PM |
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So, when can we have genoas made out of material that will last longer?
Has this topic been discused recently, and if so, what is the curreent thinking? |
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Lorne Chapman
Posts:150
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| 06/15/2006 6:22 PM |
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One of the tasks of the Technical Committee is to periodically canvas sailmakers who make sails for the class and know the boat. The consensus of the most recent information that we have is that there is no better material for genoas at present than what we are currently using. The wear on the genoa comes from the sail being pounded on the mast every time we tack, especially in heavy weather.
The introduction of kevlar reenforcing patches seems to help the sail life to some extent and are allowed under class rules.
The Technical Committee is always happy to get new leads on sail material and will pursue those that seem viable. We do need to keep in mind that sails must use non-proprietory technology and be available to class members in the areas of the world where J/24s race.
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Paul Beaudin
Posts:7
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| 08/02/2006 9:11 AM |
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The polyester genoa, whether Pentex, Dacron or any poly based material has always been less than special. Polyester based laminates are too unstable and the sail maintains optimum shape for usually a very short time. Would any serious competitor ever do a major regatta without a new one. The Aramid patches probably do more harm than good, as dissimilar materials shrink at different rates causing shape transitions where the two materials meet. Add one that also stretches much less and make maters worse. Look for these sails to start showing wear much sooner in the base material around the the clew patch. Many of us went through this in the 80s when many polyester sails were made using multiple cloth styles. As a result all the current sails by major brands use the same base material throughout. Making the sails heavier through the minimum bag weight has also not made sails last longer. I feel my lighter poly genoas actually lasted better than the sails using a heavier cloth. Again many sails now use lighter weight base cloths with overbuilt patching to make weight. Take a look at the sizes and layers in patches prior to the rule and the current sails.
The bottom line is polyester based genoa cost the members too much for the amount of decent races we get out of them. An Aramid laminate sail will hold it's design shape for twice as long for the same price as the polyester. The only minor downside might be, with all the tacks and luffing we do, the poor flex and UV properties of aramid will give the sail a shorter ultimate life. The best choice, as seen with most racing sails, open any magazine, are carbon based laminates. Carbon has better flex properties and is not effected by UV. It is so tough it has become the performance fiber of choice for not only racing but also performance cruising. A Carbon sail will last twice as long as the Aramid for less than 25% more cost than the current sail. Maybe we should just remove the restrictions on the material type and weight all together and let the free market create the best sails. |
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Chris McLaughlin
Posts:38
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| 08/02/2006 9:34 AM |
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Carbon sails at a 25 5 premium would be fine by Team Hedgehog. |
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jon powell
Posts:3
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| 10/24/2006 1:37 PM |
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| i think it is worth really looking into this, for those of us who want to compete but arent sponsored the very short competitive life of a genoa is a real problem, if we want our class to prosper it must make it as easy as possible for all, what ever our bank balance, to be competitive. i hear that thwe class ask our sailmakers regularly and they say there is no better option, surely they want short life genoas more sails to sell. ive spoken to two or three sailmakers i know and they all believe that alternative cloths even if slightly more expensive will increase the life expectancy considerably. I think longer lasting genoas would do far more for the class than arguing about optional equipment. |
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Dan Webb
Posts:55
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| 10/25/2006 7:26 AM |
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I know it has been shot down in the past, but it works well for other classes...
Limit the number of new sails you can purchase over a years time. By limiting the number of new sails allowed per boat, it helps the non-sponsored, low budget teams be a little more competitive with pros who show up to every regatta with a new set of sails.
I'd be in favor limiting the number of new sails per year to 2. Of course the sail makers would oppose this rule but I think it would help the majority of the Class. |
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Stuart Jardine
Posts:54
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| 11/01/2006 1:13 PM |
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Dan, I am afraid limiting the sails only further handicaps the poorer sailors.
The Etchells have this system and all that happens is that the sponsored and professionals turn up with a new boat each Worlds and some even own two or more boats to over come the problem.
As a result those that cannot afford a new boat resort to badly tearing their sails or even accidently loosing a sail over board and getting permission to buy a new sail, I'm not joking.
We do have a problem with the our Genoas and I believe we should be looking into a cloth that can stand up better. One sail maker in the UK offers taffitta backed sustrate/film laminate which is exactly the same as a standard genoa but with the taffitta added in the areas of greatest strain, this does add about 1 kg to the weight of the sail but certainly extends the club life of the sail by some years but one probably does loose fractionally in light airs. Some of our sail makers do say that Kevlar would help but at our weight restictions they would be very stiff.
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gavin watson
Posts:1
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| 11/10/2006 12:13 PM |
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| would it not be worth going straight to the cloth manufacturers to see what they recommend? they could then advise on the best material for the jib as well!!! |
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stephen estes
Posts:11
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| 08/19/2007 6:44 PM |
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It's been over a year since my original post on this subject.
How slowly must we move on this?
Is there anything new?
I have just switched to using one of my older genoas, because it is in better shape that the "new" one I started using less than one year ago!
Cripes, $1500 a year adds up.
I'm not rich and don't have any sponsors (unless you count my retirement plan, which suffers at hte expense of my racing).
I would be happy to pay 25% more for a sail that would last 50 to 100% longer.
Can we not do any better than this?
Sorry to flame, but it seems like something should be happening on this.
Thanks. |
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