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Dan Webb
Posts:55
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| 04/24/2007 3:14 PM |
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I need to take care of a few areas on the bottom of the boat and will need to re-paint these areas.
I was wondering if anyone could recommend a good, but not expensive, airless sprayer.
Does anyone have an older sprayer they would like to sell?
Thanks... |
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Wendover IV Neefus
Posts:7
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| 04/26/2007 10:23 AM |
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You can purchase or rent suitable spraying equipment at Home Depot or Auto Zone (auto parts store). www.jamestowndistributors.com has paint spraying equipment (HVLP Paint Sprayers) for around $125.
We are at the same stage. I have not tried spraying/painting my boat yet, due to the paint manufactures required/recommended temperatures for painting and the correct moisture content of my boats’ gel coat, it needs to dry out. I need to wait until the weather warms up.
After researching spraying applications and procedures I have found that spray painting could be hazardous, vapors are very toxic. Ventilation and breathing equipment is highly recommended. If you are a do-it-your-selfer like me, I recommend reading the Intelux Product bulletin No.410. This bulletin outlines the products used and involvement of spray painting and roll-brush method painting.
NOTE: I’ve been informed that the amount of a spraying reducer (Interlux 2316N) is critical to having a smooth finish when painting topsides. I’m not sure about bottom paints. You should ask the manufacture if it can be sprayed. If so, ask for spraying reducer recommendations. What products are you using?
PAINTING METHODS:
Currently, I'm favoring the rolling and brushing tip-off method. I’ve been practicing in my heated garage on my rudder and the results are satisfactory. I must say the secret is the amount of brushing reducer (Interlux 2333N). It took some time to get the hang of it so the brush stokes are not so visible. The right amount of brushing reducer (20-25% by vol) helps the paint flows better to cover the brush marks, resulting in a successful paint job in my opinion. I will soon post my steps and links to photos on this forum on repairing my rudder.
PAINTING THE ENTIRE BOAT:
I’m currently gearing up towards painting the entire boat (hull and topsides). I plan on applying 3 coats of Interlux Epoxy PrimeKote 404 over the existing gel coat. Then I will apply 3 coats of Interlux Perfection Paint. I’m well aware of the great deal of sanding involved between each coat. A orbital sander that uses hook and loop sanding disks is the best sander to use in my opinion. As of this moment, I will be applying the paint using the rolling and brushing tip-off method as shown on the Interlux perfection paint video. Again, I recommend reading the Intelux Product bulletin No.410 if you a do-it-your-selfer.
I’m open for conversations about spraying; this method appears be more involved to me. I’m not ruling it out as a method for painting my boat. For all others who read this forum please comment on spraying verses the rolling and brushing tip-off method. Hopefully you could share your painting/spraying techniques. What are the PROS and CONS of each method?
WHAT PAINT (WATER BARRIER OR ANTIFOULING) IS NEEDED?
Before I commit on my painting approach I need to determine the following:
1.) If I dry sail my boat do I need to use a water barrier film/paint like Interprotect 2000E, Interprotect 3000, etc.. I’m planning on painting 3 coats of Interlux Epoxy PrimeKote 404 over the existing gel coat. Then applying 3 coats of the Interlux Perfection Paint. What are your thoughts?
2.) I don’t think I need VC 17m antifouling paint if I dry sail the boat, Right? What are your thoughts?
Any product recommendations for the bottom hull are greatly appreciated.
Thank you,
C.W. Neefus
Flutterbye - J/24#651
P.S. I have not looked on this forum for answers to my questions. Anyone who has anything to add, please feel free. This is what this forum is all about.
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Dan Webb
Posts:55
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| 04/27/2007 8:09 AM |
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Thanks C.W.
I'll be borrowing an airless sprayer to do my job.
I only have a few small areas to repair on the bottom, so I was looking to do the job quickly with minimal sanding. This is why I will be spraying. I'll also be spraying my rudder at the same time.
However, a few years back I did paint the topsides from the waterline up. I used a two part Awlgrip. I used the roll and tip method that you have been practicing with. I was 100% satisfied with outcome. A lot of people told me it would not look as good as a sprayed boat. I was told that the roller and brush marks would be visible. They are not. The key is getting the mixture right. I followed Awlgrips recommendations and the paint flowed smoothly and evenly. In my opinion, it came out better then a sprayed boat. When clean, the boat has a mirror finish and no orangepeel effect.
I rolled on 3 thin coats of primer (Awlgrip 545) and then 5 coats of the topcoat.
As for the bottom, I will be using Awlgrip 545 primer. This is what is currently on the bottom so I want my repairs to match.
Even though you plan on dry-sailing, I would still recommend using a barrier coat such as Interprotect 2000E. The next owner will appreciate it, especially if he/she decides to wet sail.
If you dry sail, there is no need to use VC-17. |
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Jeff Anderson
Posts:8
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| 04/28/2007 12:48 PM |
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I'm also at the same stage as ya'll. I bought my boat as a fixer upper and have been working on it for a while now. I choose Interlux products for my project, but I'm told Awlgrip is a fine product. Tip on spraying: check the minimum specs for the sprayer. If the paint requires a 19 - 21 tip at 1200 to 1500 psi make sure you use a sprayer that can handle those specs. I did not check those specs and bought a wagner paint crew 3 gallon that had a max 15 tip. Needless to say it orange peeled on me and I had to sand the bottom paint back off and start over again. I'm now favoring the brush and tip method and I have been practicing on a piece of wall board before I try it on the boat. Also if you are going to spray just a few small areas make sure to tape off everything within several feet of where you are going to spray, you would not believe how much paint gets everywhere.
I've been looking at painting the upper hull now. I have removed the toe rails (hope I never have to do that again), sanded everything, filled the scrathes and dings. I'm looking at using Perfection on my upper hull. As I was doing research I found one little reference on using 2 part paints that suggested saturating a rag with 2316N reducing solvent and taping to the hull for 24 hrs. If after 24hrs your existing paint is soft then you can not use 2 part products due to the harsh solvents in these products. Just thought I'd throw that out there cause I was just about the purchase the primer and paint when I read that and said, oh crap, better check that. So thats what I'm doing this weekend. |
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Wendover IV Neefus
Posts:7
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| 05/10/2007 8:39 PM |
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Dear Do-It-Your-Self:
The Interlux Painting Guide informs the user that paint should only be applied to surfaces (Fiberglass/Gelcoat) having a Moisture Content range below 3-5%.
For older boat’s that may have blisters and/or moisture trapped in the gelcoat, additional drying preparations are required to achieve a professional painting job. I’ve seen on the Jamestown workshop site a boat tarped-off with poly sheets around the boat and heaters placed under the hull. Drying times may take 2 weeks or more to dry out to the required moisture content for painting. Every day someone would test areas of the boat and write the MC% on that spot on the hull.
Has anyone tested gelcoat for Moisture Content? If so, how was it done? I’ve searched the web for Moisture Meters and found an inexpensive model, EXTECH MO100 Pocket Size Drywall Moisture Meter for $59.99 which tests from 0-100% MC. I'm not sure if it will work on gelcoat?
Any recommendations to determine the moisture content of gelcoat are greatly appreciated.
Thank you,
C.W. Neefus
Flutterbye - J/24#651
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Jeff Anderson
Posts:8
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| 05/12/2007 7:11 PM |
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Hey Ya'll
I started painting the upper hull today with epoxy primecoat. Once we got the hang of it, it went fast. Just a note in a earlier post I said to tape a rag soaked in 2316 to see if you existing coating is compatible for 24 hrs. I got that information from Interlux's web-site and it is WRONG. If the boat had never been painted then its gelcoat and does not need this treatment. If it has been painted tape the rag on there for 20 minutes and no more. My boat is a 1980 and I'm not the original owner, so in my case I didn't know either way. The gist of it is that I left the rag taped to the hull for 14 hours and the solvent eat the gelcoat down to the fiberglass. Left a hole about 5" across by 6" high. Interlux came out and looked at my boat b/c they did not believe it was possible. They helped me out, and made things right. So far I'm very happy with their service and support. |
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Seth Spiller
Posts:7
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| 07/23/2007 10:10 PM |
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I just purchased a 1982, apparently in storage most of its life until 2000, then dry sailed / raced 2001 - 2004 by the person I purchased it from. The recent owner did some racing and removed all the "extra" deck hardware (appears he sealed holes up pretty well as the boat is very light with no signs of moisture in the balsa), he also moved the keel forward and attempted to fair the bottom and topsides. A friend and myself are undertaking a complete make-over of the exterior, he just finished doing his 1980 26' two years ago and has a paint booth set up in a small warehouse unit he owns... SWEET! We plan to build things up with an epoxy, sand, epoxy, sand, sand and more sanding then spray on finishes.
Anyways, his experience was with awlgrip on the topsides and deck (his interior as well). His boat has a mirror finish, it really looks new. I'll update this post as we commence the project - successes, products, spray gun settings, etc.
I'll start another thread about what people are doing on the ceiling inside the cabin too. The interior gel coat is in really good condition, a little compound and I think it will come right back but the ceiling could use some clean up, I am not interested in stripping things out like my friend did and respraying, I am thinking of a rolled on flat product similar to what appears to have been done at the factory... I want to sail this boat, not work on it! |
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Ben Sliwka
Posts:2
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| 06/26/2008 12:53 PM |
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Hello, all. I just did the topsides this spring using Interlux Brightsides. HAd to use a one part because there was all manner of paint, differing in age and texture on there. As they say, prep was 90% (at least). We took off the bulk, but not all of the existing paint with 220 grit, epoxied large dings and used skimming putty on small ones. There were a lot and during prep, the boat looked like it had chicken pox. We went with 3 coats, rolling and tipping, light sanding in between with 320, if I recall. BEWARE, we wiped down in between sandings with denatured alcohol, which we believed to be quite gentle, however, we were disappointed with the improvement between coats 2 and 3 and I am suspicious that may have been the wrong solvent to go with. Spend the $ on the Interlux (or whatever manufacturer) solvent, just in case my concern is correct. End result was some sections very nice and others with orange peeling. Granted that the stuff we were trying to take off was significantly orange peeled, we felt that we had removed all of it. Plus, my problem areas are not where they were before, so I believe its new orange peeling, not stuff we missed.
Cory knows... I just tell people not to look too close.
I am stripping the transom this winter for new motor mount and new hardware and will have a chance to sand that down well, and re-use this method, this time with that slight variation. I am still contemplating giving the hull a good buff-out this fall, which will probably not take it all out. If that fails, I will go to the 320 grit again and give it another coat when I do the transom.
Ben Sliwka
Aja #417 |
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Peter Stevens
Posts:32
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| 07/06/2008 9:08 PM |
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Hi,
Please visit www.funyachtracing.com and view the photo gallery.
Also I found usefull information by doing a google search on Painting a J Boat, and there is a excellent series of video's on You Tube shouwing the process.
Cheers
Pete .
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ferenc lazar
Posts:24
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| 07/07/2008 1:59 PM |
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| Peter, as I remember some time ago I saw more photos/narrative about the bottom prep and painting. I vaguely remember that you guys used air curing gelcoat on epoxy fairing which contrary to the popular belief sticks to the epoxy fairing.
My project has been dry sailed (stored on the hard rarely even sailed) and I'm planning to spray on some gelcoat on the keel and on the rudder- the rest of the hull being in pretty good shape, and the redo of the interior is more of a concern (standing water damage-rotten and moldy wood/rotten and delaminated plywood)
I wonder if the air curing gelcoat experience still applies, or you have some additional hints.
Thanks in advance |
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Peter Stevens
Posts:32
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| 07/17/2008 10:52 PM |
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Hi,
Yes I can help you out with the gelcoat repairs and touch up. Gelcoat can be sprayed on to epoxy.
Have a look at the following sites:
On Youtube : Search for West System Gelcoat How to Part 1 etc. Very good informative how to repairs for Gelcoat.
We used Valspar Air Curing Gelcoat. We spray it onto the epoxy repairs thinning the gelcoat down with acetone.
For reference : vist www.funyachtracing.com For Gelcoat refit photo gallery.
Also I have just bought a new J24 and am currently refairing and painting the hull this forum and tips will be placed on my boats web page at
www.hiyachtracing.com
If you have any questions please feel free to ask
Cheers
Pete |
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ferenc lazar
Posts:24
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| 07/18/2008 12:28 PM |
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I remember seeing more photos than currently in the Photogallery on the funyacht site.
good luck with the new boat, the bottom epoxy base coat looks nice.
need more photos and tips!
How much acetone did you add for spraying, what nozzle did you use, etc.
Thanks, Ferenc
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Peter Stevens
Posts:32
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| 07/18/2008 7:31 PM |
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We used a standard siphon spray gun. We thinng was dependant on the abient temperature, we typically thinned done 50% uo to 100 percent, and sprayed many thin coats,
You set the mix up so it will spray llike polyurathane. For spot repairs you can add duratec which makes gelcoat spray like normal paint.
You need to be patience as you need each coat to flash off otherwise you will get fish eyes, The acetone will evaporate so it does not present any problems.
Thanks
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