I sailed in the Annapolis NOOD last weekend. Does anyone understand what the PFD rule in effect for that regatta required? The racing instructions said something like, "Competitors shall carry a PFD. Their use is encouraged." Are "competitors" the boats or each member of the crew on the boat? Was each competitor (meaning each crew member) required to "carry" a PFD or was it enough if PFDs were on the boat? I should have asked the Race Committee but I did not realize how unclear the rule was until we were racing.

Sounds like a pretty good sounding board here and I hope someone from US Sailing sees this. I have to admit I have always been a little adverse to wearing a PFD, but only because I had to wear it as a kid or not sail. I do believe that the responsibility relies on the skipper and crew to dress and act properly. US Sailing does not regulate whether or not my rig has been inspected, or if my outboard has been serviced and certainly these are also important safety issues. Spending a great deal of time racing in typically warm weather, warm water areas I find it quite ridiculous to require my crew to wear a life jacket while they are crouched on the leeward rail, in 90 degree heat and 3 knots of air. If we are allowed to self govern as to whether or not we go out in heavy air conditions then we should be able to self govern life jacket use, and I'll include Race Committees flying the life jacket flag as self government. If cold water/weather areas want life jackets as mandatory, aka San Fran, then fine, but lets not enforce the rules unilaterally.

Happy Sailing;
Paul Scalisi
Quantum Sail Design Group - New Jersey

well, i wouldnt drop out of a regatta for this reason, but i definately agree with you. If wearing life jackets is what it takes to sail in a regatta, then do it. Sailing is what it is all about, no matter what you have to do. I agree that these rules should not exist, but until we get them changed, do whatever you have to do to sail, even if it involves wearing a pink dress shirt and tie.......wait a minute....i did that once......

Greg Hammond

I posted this message less than 1 week ago. From the feedback so far, I conclude that no one is advocating irresponsibility. I will be the first to pass out lifejackets and DEMAND that they be worn when warrented. What I object to is being told by the sailing instructions at some regattas i.e. the NOOD's to wear a PFD at the start and finish and that I have the option to say it is ok to take them off in the middle. If I am responsible enough to make a choice in the middle, why not at the start and finish? It is a slippery slope toward shore to shore rules. Lets use common sense in super light air. This is our sport, not some has been's on some US Sailing committee. If we object to the rule, lets use this a forum.

I suppose I could drop out of US Sailing if I feel my voice is not being heard. Most regattas offer a discount for US sailing members, or have a premium for non-members. But here is what really bugs me, the NOOD's require membership. I don't have a choice. I could choose not to sail the NOOD's, but again that is not a good choice.

I have are ready decided not to sail the Mallory Cup(this year it's in J/24's at my club). The reason, they require shore to shore wear.

The fanny packs are a joke. Let's talk it up!

Well this one hits home with me as well.

I have a general rule that we put them on when it hits about 15 knots. I have bought 5 for the boat and have found plenty of times when the crew wants it(but might not say it). It has been my experience that when I ask for a life jacket the crew generally puts them on as well. I think they wait for me because the might be worried that I would think them to be a wimp or something for having one on. In general, I would suggest that anyone put it on when they feel they need it.

If I was running the races, I would raise the flag about 15 knots and/or when the combined air/water temp does not equal 110. Since not all committees will do this, why don't the skippers ask for one as a way to see what their crew thinks when one of the above happens. I think you might be surprised on how many jump at the chance to get one, if they are available, and the helmsman gets one first.

Alright, this thread has struck a nerve of mine. Although I work for a sail loft now, I spent five seasons working with JWorld Annapolis. During that time we always had a lifejacket policy. Initially I thought it was stupid, but after a while I began to realize that MOB's are fact of sailing regardless of skill level or sea state. During my time as a coach, I was involved in several recoveries all of which were real and none of which seem like no big deal when you are on the spot.

In fact, just this past weekend as I was sailing in the NOOD my trimmer fell overboard on a tack while we were racing a J22. He's a big guy, but he is 23 and pretty agile. He religiously wears his lifejacket in spite of the jokes or the temperature of the air. I guess coming from dinghies he just feels more comfortable with it. You would have never expected this guy to slip, but he did, and he was shocked by how cold the water was. The story ends ok, he was back on the boat in a hurry, and while we didn't win the race, we did win the regatta. But the incident was yet another reminder that anyone is succeptible to this kind of thing.

In my experiences with victims in the water, they survive only about half as long as the statistics about hypothermia and all that other stuff suggests mostly because of shock and panic. The first thing anyone does is try to swim after the boat. How stupid is that? You can't swim faster than 2kts. but everyone tries to. Drowning is a very real and present danger to all racing sailors, and we don't take it seriously enough, particularly us boatowners. I remember buying the $9 package of four orange PFD's years ago thinking that at least this will satisfy the Coast Guard.

In my opinion, there is not enough emphasis on the skipper's responsibility to the crew. All boat owners should provide modern style Type III PFD's and encourage or demand that the crew wear them when conditions warrent it. WHile I don't agree with the US Sailing attempt to force good judgement on the racing fleet, you have to recognize that there is a huge absence of good judgement among many skippers in a racing fleet. It would not bother me a bit if every MOB was followed up with a protest style investigation by the Race Committee as to whether a skipper was negligent of safety. It's great to give redress to the boat that assisted in the recovery, but penalized a boat that causes these problems unnecessarily and you will see a heavier emphasis on safety.

There is no excuse for a boatowner having a bunch of cruddy, uncomfortable PFD's stored in a moldy locker somewhere in the bottom of the boat so that no one can find them or is willing to wear them when they are needed. Get the right tool for the job, and if you don't want to pony up, ask crew to bring their own. The boat is required to have them, though, so you may as well buy them for the boat.

About the inflatable ones, I have seen them work correctly, and I have seen them not work at all. Get the real thing. THe foam always floats, and it helps keep you warm when it's cold.

Will Crump

This "rule" is a US Sailing recommended prescription. Some regatta organizers use it all the time, now, but I have yet to see a regatta in Southern California that follows this rule (outside of US Sailing ladder events). Most regatta organizers here are still posting the "Y" flag at their discretion.

Personally, I put on a life jacket (Extrasport Challenger, not one of those useless Musto Regatta Vests) when the wind builds above 15 kts., or it is cold out (water and air temp). I always wear a life jacket when I sail my Laser or 505. It's really interesting, because when the breeze starts building, I see the top of the fleet go to their PFD's first. It's the less experienced boats that I see without PFD's.

How can this rule be overturned?

Maybe if enough people respond in this forum, someone will take notice.

Boy! What a can of worms!
Ours has become an extremely litigious society. Everyone is suing everyone else for something. A woman spills coffee on her lap and McDonald's gets sued (and you can't get a hot cup of coffee any more). I read about a year ago that someone sued a mountain bike manufacturer because there was no warning on the bike saying that the it might be difficult to see in the dark. He got hit by a car in the dark and sued the bike maker. Insurance companies pay, and you pay more in premiums to the insurance company. Race committees want to keep their premiums down.

Clearly, protective laws are made to hold down the costs for insurance companies and the government. Automobile seat belt, airbag, and Motorcycle helmet laws are a great example of how the government makes it look like it has stepped in to protect you from yourself when they're really reacting to the wants of the insurance industry. If some idiot wants to ride in a car without a belt, or to ride a motor bike in traffic with only his scalp as a buffer between him and the pavement, let him do it, but also let him not raise everyone's insurance rates at the same time.

Yacht racing is an different animal. Races are private affairs and voluntary in nature. If you don't want to follow the rules the race sponsors have set up, they in turn have the right to protect themselves by not allowing you to participate in their race. Offshore races require a prudent assortment of safety equipment on board preparing for the event of a catastrophe, yet it really should be left up to the individual if he wants to avail himself of the extra measure of safety they give. As a skipper you are liable for the safety of your crew and passengers. You need to provide all on board with the ability to save themselves. A skipper should encourage the wearing of PFD's when the going is rough, too many yachtsmen have been lost at sea without PFD's, but still, the actual choice should be left up to the individual. The only caveat to that is that if someone falls overboard in rough seas and is not wearing a jacket, does his rescue endanger the others still on the boat?

Bottom line ... it should be up to you not the race committee, and if you choose not to wear a PFD you should have no right to sue anyone.

I think it is important to note that you cannot expect all people to excercise good judgement all of the time. Therefore the rest of us will pay for someone else's irresponsibility!

It's the American Way.

Thomas Pittard
#266
"Perry Gooch & The Goochmen"

i disagree with the rule completely. i think that people should be responsible, and if there is weather in which life jackets are required to race, then they should raise the flag, and having them for the start and finish only is kind of pointless anyway

How do the rest of you feel about the recent manatory use of PFD's at the start and finish of a race? I think this rule is insulting. In a recent issue of American Sailer, a J/24 sailor was given an award for plucking a person out of the water that feel from a 35 footer. The wind was over 20 knts and 10 ft waves. Why not post the 35 footer's skippers name and publically chastise him for not mandating PFD use when the conditions clearly warrented use. Why must we go through the drill of wearing PFD's at the start and finish of a race if the water is flat and drifter conditions. Some say the "fanny pack" is the solution. It all seems a bit silly. What ever happened to personal responbility. How do the rest of you feel?