I use a compass card currently. I am not competitive, yet, but my crew and I try very hard.
I just read all the comments, and rules about the new digital displays, and no one mentioned the cost factor in general. Lots is discussed about comparitive cost, but I'm sure that at some point, when our guiding fathers wrote this rule, they were thinking about overall cost of a J/24. What do you think! Perpetuation of the Class should also be considered. (When will carbon mast be legalized?)

Does anyone have a used SailComp for sale?

Please give me a call or email...

Sean A. Hendrickson
Music Account Manager
Digital River Inc.
seanh@digitalriver.com
612-253-8822 Tel
612-829-9871 Fax
612-963-6924 Mobile

Jeff, gymbal and mag card compasses work, as they have forever basically, but the KVH sailcomp is the way to go. No longer is it a big deal if you forgot a watch, because the compas does it for you. Basically all of the more competitive boats use the KVH or an equivalent, however, the KVH, when set up with the dual display bracket is unrivaled as far as quality, dependability, and visual clarity. I have only had my boat for 3 years, and when we accidentally smashed the splitter box for the dual display ability, it was like losing an eye. There is no substitute for the KVH.

Robert Kinsman, 4255, Fast Forward
Raritan Yacht Club, Perth Amboy, NJ

I got my reply from Reid Stava, which is a reference to the article mentioned by Kevin:

"The Sailcomp with the head/lift option was approved for class usage about 10
years ago. It was decided that system did not compute and display values
(such as 'course made good') but only indicated the change from a previously
set value (heading variance). We did have a loophole regarding usage of GPS
systems, but I believe that has been closed. I do not know the Tack Tick
system, but if it only provides the same information as the Sailcomp, it
should be legal."

I agree that the rulebook should be clarified in this area (section 4).

Thanks Kevin, good find. That clears it up. I would only suggest that the wording be modified to be more clear in our class rule book. You shouldn't have dig out an article from 12 years ago to interpret a rule.

I hadn't read that previously, but certainly I think it is helpful. I wondered about the true (as opposed to apparent) legality for a long time, since I had read the rule.

But to change the subject slightly, two points:
1) I don't advocate using the buttons. We have not installed them on my boat, and I think that the crew all has a much better feel for the numbers because thay have to watch them constantly and draw their own conclusions about the median headings throughout each leg. I think it keeps us much more in touch with what the wind is actually doing than if you record it with the button. It is easy to hit the button at the wrong time, when the bow has just bounced down 5 degrees, and you could be all wrong about the shifts. On some days, 5 degrees is a big shift!

2) In response to Marv (re: why no aids to downwind VMG calculations?), looking across the water, attempting to resolve the angles of the various boats, and your own relative to the median wind direction- that's one of the great intellectual challenges of the sport. Sailing with just a good compass and a level playing field is one of the greatest things about the J/24 class. I sailed for years as crew on other boats, as well as on my own laser, but sailing this boat has improved my skills threefold in just a couple of years. Hope to see you out there!

From "International J/24 Magazine" Spring 1987

Interpretation of IJCA Rule 4.1.3

By Rodney S. Johnstone,
Chairman, IJCA Technical Committee

On November 2, 1986, the IJCA World Council approved an amendment to Rule 4.1.3(equipment on board while racing) to require "One fixed marine type compass of magnetic card or digital readout capable only of instantaneous readout and current trend information. (Compasses capable of displaying stored headings and/or performing calculations for storage of tactical information shall not be allowed.)"

A specific question has arisen as to whether the Sailcomp Model PC103 digital compass with header/lift option falls within the requirements of the rule. With this compass one of three buttons may be punched which will set the current heading of the boat. Another button can be punched (say on the opposite tact) to set another heading in memory. These headings cannot be later displayed, but an indicator on top of the compass can later indicate (at the press of a button) whether the boat is up or down from that heading.

The clear intent of the rule is to prevent the use of any electronic compass that can provide information or make calculations not possible with an ordinary magnetic card compass. There are several magnetic card compasses available where headings can be set mechanically with a compass rose that rotates around the compass card (Suunto for one). Another method more commonly used is to write headings in grease pencil next to the compass. These operations clearly define the limits of functions that the PC103 is capable of
performing. Because the Sailcomp Model PC103 is not capable of performing any information beyond what can be obtained just as readily with a magnetic card compass, it is permissable within the scope of IJCA rules. A compass equipped with the electronic capability to make calculations and produce average headings would clearly be illegal however.

The test for any model of compass is whether it can perform functions not possible with a magnetic card compass.

Hope this helps.
Kevin

I'm hoping to be a new J24 owner by this summer, and in the process of deciding on the boat went through the rules in detail. I found it curious that the use of GPS or LORAN is illegal. As a new owner, I would find it really useful to get a measure of VMG on downwind legs.

Can anyone give me a reason for this? A few years ago one might argue that cost was involved, but now your average GPS cost about the same as a good set of foulies. So why the restriction?

Boats have been sailing with Sailcomps, and now with TackTicks for many years, and at major regattas too.

When a rule has been un-enforced as long as this one has, I think it best for the class to delete it, or clarify the meaning, since it must not mean what it appears to mean. Otherwise, we have had a lot of folks racing illegally for a long time.

Boats have been sailing with Sailcomps, and now with TackTicks for many years, and at major regattas too.

When a rule has been un-enforced as long as this one has, I think it best for the class to delete it, or clarify the meaning, since it must not mean what it appears to mean. Otherwise, we have had a lot of folks racing illegally for a long time.

Kevin, that's not the way I read the rule. If it's capable of displaying a (one or more) stored heading (I would interpret a bar graph as a display of a stored heading) it's illegal. I wouldn't think it matters that you have to point the boat in a direction to enter the heading vs. keying it in.

The low-end Sail Comps and Tick Tacks donot store heading in the sense of this rule. You can set a heading only by pointing the boat that direction, you cannot enter several heading with a key-pad and later selecting the one you want.

That's a strange place for that rule, which is probably why I never saw it before. I would like a member of the tech. committee to weigh in on this issue, too. I immediately started looking in "Restrictions When Racing" and would not have thought of looking at "Safety Rules When Racing". I propose that we remove this verbage, or relocate it to a proper location in the rulebook if the class wants to keep it.

That's the rule I was referring to Tony, thanks. Reading that, I would say that Tackticks are illegal because they are CAPABLE of storing headings. I think you could say that SailComps could be made to be "J24 legal" by rendering them INCAPABLE of storing headings by detaching the storage buttons.

I think the rule being questioned is 4.1.3.
It states in part "...(Compasses capable of displaying stored headings and/or performing calculations for storage of tactical information shall be not allowed)".

I don't see any restrictions regarding electronic compasses in the J/24 class rules. I do see a restriction in class rule 8.1.5 that you may be thinking of, but it's a limitation on LORAN, GPS, etc.:

8.1 The following practices are not permitted when racing.

8.1.5 Use of LORAN, GPS, or similar position fixing devices.

I would like someone to clarify once and for all if using the heading storage buttons on your Sail Comp or Tacktick is legal. I have heard arguments from both sides. I don't have the class rules in front of me now but I remember my impression of the applicable rule taken literally was that you couldn't store headings electronically. If that is true it has got to be one of the most commonly violated rules out there. I think the majority of the boats we race against in our district use the buttons. FYI Before anyone flames me on this - we don't have the buttons installed on our boat even though we use a SailComp... just good old duct tape and a marker.

I was a card compass fan since I bought my J/24 in 1991. I could never justify the expense of the Sailcomp or the hassle of wires, connections, and the problems salt water brings to these systems. Last year I switched over to the Tack Tick Race Compass because it was self contained, waterproof, easily removable, and half the price of a Sailcomp. I don't want to start a war with KVH as their product is excellent and for years the has been the norm, but I highly recommed the Tack Tick, and to make it better they have recently made some upgrades and you can trade your old one and some $$'s for a new model with a better battery/charger, damping, response, etc. I have a dealership for Tack Tick and the response to the "new" kid on the block has been good. If you have any questions you can call me at 973-972-3902 or Dave Gorwitz at Tack Tick at 1-800-360-3822.

I have just recently purchased a Tacktick Race Master, their new product. It has dual 30mm displays for heading AND 20mm information displays just below those(the older Tacktick and Sailcomp have displays that are approximately 17mm). I have only had it for a couple of weeks but I am very impressed so far. It is small and self contained. Sailcomp has a real challenger now. The guys at Tacktick were very helpful and will tell you that at the Melges 24 Worlds's that 90 of 95 competitors were using their products (thats impressive). It is expensive at $699 but still comparable to the sailcomp system and much cheaper than the sailcomp dual maxi display system that you would need to really be comparative. Their website is tacktick.com. Good sailing.

I have had a tacktick for 2 seasons now. I like it a lot. The display is easy to read, and the mast person has an easy time hitting the control buttons to catch the gun, or reset the lifted/headed settings.

Can't say if it is "better" than a sailcomp, but it is certainly cheaper. Also, we remove it and keep it indoors between races. Hopefully, less exposure to Minnesota temperature and weather extremes = long life.

I think having a sail comp (electronic compass) is helpful in making compass numbers easier to read, but you also need to know how to use the info. that a sail comp provides. KVH has posted Sail Comp Racing Tips on its website to provide some insight on how to use a Sail Comp to its fullest potential, and also its limitations.

I think most boats in my District use a KVH Sail Comp. Full list price is $795, but they are probably available for less than that.

There is also the Tick Tack compass which can be seen at http://www.tacktick.com/. I've never seen one on a J/24 in Southern California, but I have seen them on M24's. They run $400, are solar powered, and are self-contained (read lighter).

I have not seen either advertised for sale used. If you are having problems getting sails up and down, I would work on that aspect first ;)

Would like some good info on the use of sail comps. Are they the only way to go? Is everyone
using them? What different types are there? Are they pretty spendy? How about used ones?
Thanks,
Jeff